Mitsotakis’ conversation with The Wall Street Journal editor-in-chief Emma Tucker

Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis participated in a speech with the exertion successful main of The Wall Street Journal Emma Tucker, connected the sidelines of the High-Level Week of the 80th United Nations General Assembly successful New York.

The full treatment follows:

Emma Tucker: I’m looking guardant to having a speech astir this precise absorbing ‘economic’ travel that Greece has been on, arsenic good arsenic the absorbing presumption that Greece finds itself successful in this fragile geopolitical world. But earlier we bash that, I conscionable wanted to commencement by saying that beauteous overmuch everyone I know, including myself, went to Greece this summer. It’s like, determination implicit Italy, determination implicit France. Greece is wherever everyone is going. So I’m conscionable funny to know, what person you done to promote this boom? And also, wherever did you spell for your summertime holiday?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I went to Greece. Well, archetypal of all, convey you. Thank you for choosing Greece for your holidays. You’re 1 of the 36 cardinal radical who decided to instrumentality the travel to Greece. And of course, tourism is the biggest assemblage successful Greece, not the lone one, but the biggest sector. And we’re precise blessed that much radical take Greece, particularly much radical from the United States. We’ve had much than 100, I think, play flights into Athens, nonstop flights from the US. We’ve truly opened up the US market, and this has been very, precise encouraging for Greek tourism.

For us, erstwhile we deliberation astir tourism, the existent situation is to equilibrium maturation with sustainability and well-paying jobs, and to promote besides a young procreation of Greeks to participate the services industry. I deliberation truthful acold we’ve done a reasonably bully occupation successful presumption of investing successful higher-end tourism. This is ever a challenge, and to guarantee that immoderate gets built oregon renovated meets precise precocious sustainability criteria. It’s not ever casual due to the fact that the Greek marque was much of a wide tourism brand. Of course, wide tourism is inactive an important contributor, but we truly privation to determination the merchandise upmarket.

Emma Tucker: On the contented of the system then, of which tourism plays an important part, I privation to speech astir this singular journey. I mean, 10 years ago, Greece was connected the brink of a immense default, crashing retired of the Euro. Since then, it’s been 10 years, you present person 1 of the fastest-growing economies successful the EU. You’re moving fund surpluses. My question is: Is Greece back?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: It surely is back. I deliberation each the numbers corroborate that. But the travel and the communicative that Greece is telling, I think, is besides applicable for a broader, I think, European and possibly adjacent a planetary audience. It is simply a contrarian communicative if you deliberation astir wherever we were. Ten years ago, the Greek 10-year enslaved was astir 9.5%, and the French 10-year enslaved was astatine 1%. Today, Greece is borrowing cheaper than France and Italy, and not galore radical would person placed that stake adjacent 2 oregon 3 years ago.

So this has been a remarkable, successful my mind, turnaround story. It has been a communicative that has focused connected macroeconomic stability. Greece is producing not conscionable primary, but besides existent surpluses. In that sense, we’re the objection to the European rule. If you look astatine the fig of countries that are presently nether European surveillance, that tells the communicative of the problems that European economies are facing. We are not successful that position. We’re producing surpluses that let america to further chopped taxes, enactment the mediate class, and make a virtuous rhythm wherever maturation brings successful much revenue, which allows us, again, to chopped much taxes and to put successful our nationalist services.

I deliberation we’ve breached retired of the habits of the past. It took immoderate hard and achy reforms to really bash that. It’s ever hard to explicate to radical that you person to nutrient a surplus due to the fact that we inactive person to bring our indebtedness down. But if you look astatine the gait astatine which we person reduced our debt, it’s been beauteous impressive. This is the fastest simplification of indebtedness to GDP of immoderate OECD country. This has been reflected successful the mode the markets person treated it.

But this is chiefly an investment-led growth. It should not beryllium a consumption-led growth. It’s besides a maturation that is dilatory but steadily changing the cloth of the system itself, from an system that was precise babelike connected tourism to an system that is besides attracting concern successful different sectors wherever we person a comparative advantage.

We brought successful much than 30 cardinal of overseas nonstop concern implicit the past six years. If you look astatine the past 20 years, that fig was nether 30 billion. In 5 years, we did amended than Greece had done successful 20 years erstwhile it comes to overseas nonstop investment. We inactive person challenges that, that of course, we request to address, amended productivity, code little labour shortage challenges.

But I similar to person that occupation than the opposite, due to the fact that erstwhile I took over, unemployment was astatine 18%, and younker unemployment was astatine 30%, and present unemployment is astatine 8%, and employers are telling maine that they cannot find skilled workers, whereas six years ago, young radical couldn’t find a job.

Emma Tucker: It has undoubtedly been an unthinkable turnaround, but it is the lawsuit that, arsenic I recognize it, Greece’s GDP is inactive beneath the level it was astatine successful 2008. You are inactive 1 of the poorest countries successful the EU. There are 2 peculiar issues I wanted to inquire you astir which correspond challenges. One is the COVID funds that you got from the EU, which person been suffusing the economy, but which are due, I think, they extremity adjacent year. That’s 1 challenge. The different one, that, of course, is this tourism boom. It’s wonderful, but tourism is fickle, there’s an constituent of ‘revenge tourism’ inactive station the pandemic. How are you going to tackle these 2 challenges? Also, adjacent if your turnaround has been great, the information is, structurally the system inactive has a mode to spell based connected immoderate of these economical indicators.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I deliberation you’re close to constituent retired that we inactive person important challenges up of us. I deliberation the examination to the 2008 numbers, successful my mind, is not peculiarly relevant. Why? Because if you look astatine the numbers earlier we went bankrupt, they didn’t truly bespeak the wellness of the system due to the fact that we ended up going bankrupt, due to the fact that we were spending much than we could really afford. When radical inquire maine astir these numbers, I archer them, yes, but this was a debt-fuelled consumption-driven growth, and we don’t privation to spell backmost to those days.

So yes, we’re catching up with Europe, and this has been my main target, convergence with Europe. We request to turn faster than the eurozone mean successful bid to beryllium capable to bash that. We besides request to trim income inequality. We focused a batch connected minimum wage. If you look astatine the minimum wage, it was € 650 erstwhile I came into power, it’s € 880 now. So we fertile 11th successful Europe.

So we person intelligibly tried to absorption connected those who person a trouble successful making ends meet.

Now, to the challenges that you pointed out, the COVID funds, what we telephone ‘NextGenerationEU’, has been a large roar for the Greek system due to the fact that it has allowed america to put successful assorted sectors which are critical, but besides to amended our nationalist services.

Yes, they bash travel to an extremity successful 2026, but determination are inactive important structural funds disposable to Greece and caller funds which are related to clime alteration and societal solidarity, which we tin pat in. So there’s not going to beryllium a abrupt halt of EU funds. But for me, the main extremity was to guarantee that we sorb each the COVID funds and that they tin really assistance america successful improving our competitors. I deliberation we’ve done a bully occupation successful doing that.

Now, coming backmost to tourism, we person tried precise hard to contiguous an representation of an system to overseas investors that is good diversified. If you look astatine different sectors that pull overseas nonstop investment, this, I think, points to the statement that Greece is not wholly babelike connected tourism. Renewable energy, logistics, and infrastructure, agrifood, and the cultivation sector. Greece is exporting € 8 cardinal of cultivation goods, and we inactive person important country to amended successful presumption of addressing productivity issues successful our cultivation sector. Healthcare services, education. We’re opening up our acquisition marketplace to nonprofit backstage investors. I envision that Greece tin go a determination healthcare and acquisition centre.

And of course, technology. What’s happening successful tech has been beauteous impressive. Out of the crisis, emerged an ecosystem of young technology-driven entrepreneurs who person been doing large things successful Greece. For us, the information that we person a dynamic diaspora is simply a tremendous comparative advantage. I don’t privation to get excessively overmuch into US home politics, but what I tin archer you is that we’ve seen a batch of involvement by Greeks and Greek founders to bring their tech teams backmost to Greece due to the fact that we privation to unfastened up our system to overseas talent, but we privation to bash it successful an organised and disciplined manner.

Emma Tucker: That’s an absorbing thought there. As I recognize it, the tech assemblage – the size of it successful the Greek system is astir 3%, and you’ve talked astir making it 10%. So however are these returning? Because evidently determination was a encephalon drain aft the fiscal crisis. Are you telling maine that tons of young, dynamic Greeks who near for the US, acceptable up their ain companies are present going to bring those back.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: What I’m saying is that for the archetypal time, we spot much radical returning to Greece than Greeks leaving Greece. We’re reversing the trend, and this is precise encouraging.

Emma Tucker: Are they each coming backmost from the US?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: No, they’re coming backmost from Europe. Some of them are coming backmost from the US. But what Greece offers present is bully occupation opportunities. I deliberation an wide unchangeable clime of governmental and economical predictability. If you privation to instrumentality your household and instrumentality to Greece, this is simply a agelong word important household decision. You privation to beryllium definite that you’re doing the close thing.

Emma Tucker: How agelong past bash you deliberation you get from 3% to 10%?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, it’s astir apt going to instrumentality america a decennary to bash that. But what I bash spot is an unthinkable appetite for investments successful tech. The large hyperscalers are already each successful Greece. We are an charismatic destination for information centres. For the moment, we’re gathering medium-sized information centres, but we’re besides looking astatine giga information centres.

And of course, the information that we person entree to astonishing endowment helps america successful pitching Greece arsenic an concern destination. If you look astatine the AI ecosystem, Greece is overrepresented successful presumption of AI scientists successful the apical institutions. One of the reasons companies look to acceptable up store successful Greece is due to the fact that they person entree to fantabulous quality capital.

Emma Tucker: A characterisation of Greece has often been a batch of reddish tape, a batch of bureaucracy. It takes excessively agelong to get permits. I mean, I work determination that it took Microsoft 4 years to get a gathering licence for a information centre it wanted to physique there. How are you tackling that peculiar problem?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I deliberation it’s a just criticism, and we’re perpetually moving to trim bureaucracy and reddish tape. I deliberation we person made important improvements by digitising the enactment betwixt the authorities and citizens and businesses. This has been a immense story, a precise palmy communicative of integer transformation. It’s been besides recognised successful Europe arsenic an illustration of however 1 tin marque the nationalist medication much efficient.

Of course, AI is offering immense opportunities successful presumption of automating repetitive tasks and making definite our civilian servants absorption connected what is truly important. Of course, galore different challenges with AI, but we are precise overmuch connected apical of the docket of however AI tin amended the concern of government. We’ve acceptable up a peculiar portion astatine my bureau to look astatine these types of projects, and we’re moving with each the large companies who are funny successful investigating their ideas successful Greece.

So yes, determination is inactive country to amended erstwhile it comes to reddish tape. But for example, we person conscionable codified our gathering legislation. This whitethorn dependable similar a trivial exercise, but earlier we had gathering laws that went backmost 100 years. And present everything is going to beryllium successful 1 code.

These are the mundane, boring changes that really marque a large quality erstwhile it comes to doing concern successful the country.

Emma Tucker: Is that going to assistance with the lodging crisis? Because I cognize lodging is simply a large issue, peculiarly for young Greeks.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Housing is astir apt the biggest contented that we’re facing close now. We recognise that Greece is besides facing a cost-of-living crisis. Of course, wages person gone up. But successful our case, we’ve conscionable travel retired of a profound crisis. Of course, for those young radical who are connected rent, lodging is simply a large burden. Five years ago, this was not an contented due to the fact that the lodging marketplace fundamentally tanked during the crisis. But arsenic the system is growing, existent property prices went up. We request to code this occupation some from the proviso and the request constituent of view.

We are, for example, offering, due to the fact that our system is doing well, we tin spend to connection targeted enactment for radical who are connected rent. In November, we’re returning 1 rent to everyone successful Greece. So essentially, we’re reducing rent by 8%. And of course, we privation to marque definite that we assistance young people. We’re offering precise generous taxation breaks. I conscionable announced that anyone successful Greece nether 25, with income nether 20,000, which is 99% of young Greeks who are working, is going to wage zero income tax, zero. If you are betwixt 25 and 30, your income taxation is going to beryllium reduced from 22% to 9%.

We’re truly sending a awesome to young radical who presumption the governmental constitution with a batch of distrust that “ we attraction astir you”. If the system is over-performing, we tin usage this surplus to marque definite that we enactment those who are successful greater need. But of course, erstwhile you look astatine the proviso of housing, I deliberation for us, the biggest accidental is to marque definite that we bring backmost to the marketplace lodging stock, particularly apartments successful our large cities that during the situation were tally down. We request to marque definite that we renovate them.

We connection incentives for radical to renovate their apartments. We connection incentives for radical to person their rental agreements from abbreviated word to agelong word agreements. I deliberation the question of abbreviated word rentals, what we telephone ‘the Airbnb problem’, is going to beryllium addressed successful a much substantive mode due to the fact that it’s wide to maine that surely successful definite destinations, abbreviated word rentals are crowding retired agelong word rentals. This, of course, is restricting the proviso of housing, driving up prices.

Emma Tucker: You speech astir the value of stability, governmental stability. But Greece, similar a batch of different European countries, is facing the challenges of populism, peculiarly from the acold right. How does a state similar Greece, and you heard what President Trump said yesterday astir Europe going to hell. How does a state similar Greece, oregon however bash you deliberation Europe should tackle the challenges that it faces erstwhile it comes to populist parties?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I don’t deliberation we’re going… Greece is surely not going to hell. We whitethorn not beryllium going to heaven, but I deliberation we’re doing overmuch amended than galore different European countries. But of course, arsenic you pointed out, we commencement from a little base.

Two points. First of all, connected populism. Greece experimented with populism. In 2015, we were mode up of the curve. We elected a populist government, and we paid a precise dense price. A 3rd programme, and essentially, we delayed our exit from the situation by 4 years. So these memories are inactive contiguous successful Greece. Of course, radical bash thin to forget, and we request to punctual them however things were a decennary agone and what advancement we person made, due to the fact that nary advancement is irreversible successful a democracy.

Having said that, we won a 2nd mandate by doing what we thought was the close thing, and by speaking information to people, and by not engaging successful populist policies. So we demonstrated that you tin really triumph an election… And hopefully we’re going to triumph different election, due to the fact that we are close now, if you look astatine the polls, we are way, mode up of the 2nd party. Granted, we besides are successful our seventh year. There are tenable complaints by people, but we’re inactive the lone governmental powerfulness successful Greece that has a program for the country.

But, of course, the conflict with populists is simply a continuous one. This is simply a warfare that we request to perpetually wage. The lone mode for constitution mean parties to triumph that conflict is by demonstrating that we perceive to people, we instrumentality their concerns seriously, due to the fact that the grievances upon which populists provender are tenable grievances. If a young idiosyncratic is telling maine that, “ Look, I’m inactive surviving with my parents due to the fact that I can’t find a house”, oregon if determination are tenable concerns with wellness care, we request to code these problems.

But if radical consciousness that they person a authorities that’s trying, it whitethorn not lick each problems. That’s honest. When we marque mistakes, we archer them “ Look, determination are issues which we didn’t tackle arsenic successfully arsenic we could”. At the extremity of the day, erstwhile I’m going to contiguous our grounds successful 2027, that’s erstwhile we person our adjacent elections, I volition inquire radical to look back. What did I archer them successful 2023? What did I present successful 2027? Have I done a tenable job? What’s my program for the future?

And successful my mind, that’s the lone mode to debunk populists. But of course, this brings america besides to the question of moving a government, being a mean enactment successful the epoch of societal media and AI. It’s a immense situation due to the fact that these tools, I think, play straight into the hands of populists. I mean, they provender up connected antagonistic emotion.

Emma Tucker: But you’re taking this on, I understand. You’re a large TikToker yourself.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I am. I said, “ Well, if you can’t bushed them, articulation them”. So I did usage TikTok.

Emma Tucker: I tried to look astatine it, but it’s each successful Greek. It didn’t assistance maine much.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Αt slightest they cognize that it’s me. So really being capable to make watermarked integer contented that radical cognize is our ain is going to beryllium critically important due to the fact that we’re going to beryllium swamped with heavy fakes.

But I privation to accidental a connection astir Europe. Because I deliberation if you work the Draghi report, which I’m definite you’re alert of, it’s a punch successful our stomach. And President Trump has his ain mode of expressing himself, but immoderate of the issues helium has with Europe are tenable issues.

Our competitiveness is declining. We are each successful favour of the greenish transition, but it needs to enactment for everyone. It can’t conscionable beryllium a modulation that is truthful accelerated and hence truthful costly that yet it volition marginalise those radical who cannot spend it.

We request to instrumentality ownership of our ain defence. We can’t conscionable count, ever number connected the US, truthful we request to walk much connected defence. So galore of the problems that person been identified arsenic European problems are morganatic problems that request to beryllium addressed astatine the European level.

Emma Tucker: So I’m funny to cognize whether you’ve had a gathering with President Trump since helium was elected.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: No, I saw him yesterday astatine the reception. We said a fewer words. I did really conscionable him. I was inactive 1 of those leaders that really worked with President Trump during the Trump-1 presidency, and we had a precise bully moving relationship. We person an fantabulous narration with the US. It’s a strategical partnership. It’s a bipartisan relationship. As acold arsenic the bilateral relationship, it’s going from spot to strength.

Some of the points President Trump cares about, specified arsenic energy, for example, are besides precise applicable to our ain strategy. Greece is becoming an vigor hub for the Eastern Mediterranean. Chevron and Exxon are looking for state southbound of Crete. We are large connected renewables, but we besides recognize the relation of earthy state arsenic a modulation fuel. We enactment precise intimately with the US connected these topics, particularly energy.

Six years ago, we were a marginal vigor subordinate astatine the European frontier. Now we person 17 cardinal cubic metres of state transitioning done Greece. Only six is for our ain needs due to the fact that we are an vigor information supplier for the Balkans, and we nonstop up state up to Ukraine. We person a determination relation to play erstwhile it comes to energy, which is peculiarly important.

Emma Tucker: Yes. It is indeed. Since we’re connected geopolitics, I recognize that you were owed to conscionable President Erdoğan of Turkey. The gathering got cancelled. I’m definite it’ll beryllium rescheduled. When it does, is the Chevron woody thing that’s going to beryllium connected the table? What is it you were hoping to sermon with President Erdoğan?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: I person met President Erdoğan 7 times since I became Prime Minister. Those person not ever been casual meetings, but I’ve ever been successful favour of having unfastened channels of connection with Turkey. We sermon our problems openly.

When it comes to Chevron, there’s thing to sermon with Turkey, frankly. We are exercising our sovereign rights southbound of Crete. This is thing that was recognised by Chevron, and we volition proceed connected that path.

Having an unfastened transmission of connection with Turkey doesn’t mean that we hold with Turkey connected each issues. If this sometimes, if immoderate we bash causes immoderate discomfort with the Turkish leader, truthful beryllium it. C’est la vie, arsenic the French would say.

But we volition proceed to prosecute with them, constructively, and hopefully, trying to find projects that are of communal benefit.

Speaking of tourism, we invited much than 100,000 Turks successful the islands of the Eastern Aegean due to the fact that we connection them fundamentally visa-free entry. And this is, for example, a people-to-people task that demonstrates that erstwhile it comes to our relationships arsenic people, we truly tin physique upon this narration to hopefully lick our…

Emma Tucker: There was a precise boisterous Turkish household staying successful the edifice that I was at, truthful determination you go.

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Good. Well, I cognize tons of Turks who take Greece for their holidays, and they’re astir welcome.

Emma Tucker: So conscionable to get backmost to the US-Greece relations, I mean, the absorbing happening is intelligibly you’re a large ally, but you besides person an absorbing and beardown narration with China, partially to bash with the shipping industry, and I deliberation they ain the Piraeus port, don’t they? What is the situation oregon what’s the opportunity, perhaps, is simply a amended question, of sitting astatine this pivotal constituent betwixt the US and China, oregon does it marque beingness a spot complicated?

Kyriakos Mitsotakis: Well, archetypal of all, fto maine constituent retired that the Piraeus Port was sold to the Chinese during the crisis, and astatine the time, they were the lone bidder. We’re a authorities that respects agreements that were made by erstwhile governments. But if you look astatine the overall, I’d say, concern patterns of China successful Greece, we person not seen galore different investments. We’re precise overmuch alert of the information that determination are strategical sectors wherever we align ourselves afloat with the US and with Europe successful presumption of protecting our strategical interests.

I would item that there’s different state which plays a peculiarly important relation successful our caller geopolitical realignment, and that is India. This IMEC corridor concept, connecting India to the Middle East to Europe, is an thought that is very, precise applicable to Greece. If you look astatine India, we’re the closest continental European state to India. We’re starting nonstop flights betwixt Delhi and Mumbai and Athens. It’s a immense accidental for america successful presumption of tourism, but besides a immense marketplace for america to penetrate.

When we’re looking, arsenic Europe, to bash escaped commercialized deals with different parts of the world, India should beryllium astatine the apical of our list. We conscionable completed a escaped commercialized woody with Indonesia. I’m speaking of Europe, due to the fact that commercialized is the exclusive competence of the European Commission. I bash spot the narration betwixt Greece and India of being of peculiar strategical importance.

This was followed by questions from members of the audience

Responding to a question astir what helium would urge to his counterparts successful Europe successful bid to propulsion done hard reforms based connected the recommendations of the Draghi report, fixed that the Greek authorities has managed to flooded galore obstacles to propulsion done the changes it has made successful Greece, the Prime Minister noted:

“ Well, I’d say, astir bring backmost the COVID urgency. I’m saying this due to the fact that during COVID, we took unthinkable decisions. We created the NextGenerationEU fund. How did we concern it? Through communal European borrowing, due to the fact that we realised that we request much firepower. If Draghi is right, that we request to bash much arsenic Europe, and determination are European nationalist goods that request to beryllium financed done European money, we besides request to summation the European budget.

Defence is astatine the top of our priorities. I’ve been advocating for a peculiar European defence money that would beryllium funded done associated European borrowing that would concern projects of communal involvement specified arsenic rocket defence and anti-drone defence, which is simply a situation that each European countries are facing. Now, that would beryllium an important awesome besides to Russia, but besides to the US, that we instrumentality our defence seriously.

Of course, determination are tons of much mundane, but incredibly important initiatives specified arsenic cutting reddish tape. We person an omnibus measure successful the European Parliament projected by the European Commission. We request to find a bulk to get it through. I’m besides peculiarly focused connected superior markets union, what we telephone Savings and Investments Union. If you look astatine the magnitude of wealth that leaves Europe, European savers investing successful the US lone for that wealth to instrumentality to Europe, it’s absurd. We request superior markets union.

Our banal marketplace successful Greece, which has a apical performer, it’s been announced that it’s becoming portion of the Euronext consortium. Big Italian banks are investing successful our banks, but it means that astatine immoderate constituent we request to push, we request to enactment our nationalist interests speech and look at…

When I look at, for example, the French and the Germans warring for who volition person a controlling involvement successful the adjacent procreation Eurofighter, I said, “ Sorry to beryllium blunt, get your enactment together”. At immoderate point, if we truly privation to put successful European defence, we request European cooperation. This cannot beryllium conscionable an ego game. Who’s going to instrumentality the leadership? Because we request to look astatine the bigger European picture”.

When asked astir Greece’s circumstantial presumption connected the contented of renewable vigor sources, Kyriakos Mitsotakis stated:

“ We’re large fans of renewables. We nutrient much than 50% of our energy from renewables. If you look at, for example, you get a windy and sunny time successful September oregon October, for hours, the grid is going to tally lone from renewables. Renewables are important successful bringing prices down, but we request basal load power.

Of course, we request to put besides successful the caller technologies astir renewables. We don’t privation to beryllium exclusively babelike connected China for our star panels. We privation to research caller cost-competitive technologies. I deliberation we besides person the financing to enactment these types of initiatives and to marketplace trial them to recognize what they tin really contribute. For us, it’s going to beryllium renewables up to possibly 70, 80%, storage, batteries, pump storage, precise important, reasonably cheap.

If you person the geography, Greece has mountains, arsenic we discussed, beauteous mountains. Next clip you travel to Greece, marque definite you sojourn mainland Greece and not conscionable the islands.

source ANA-MPA